UPDATE MONDAY AFTERNOON 12/30: The forecasts said we'd only see 40s, but Sunday night the temperatures climbed into the 50s with some wind, so more melting than initially expected. Still expecting cooler temperatures starting on Wednesday and even a few snow showers, but not enough to get us back to where we were a few days ago. There is some indication that at least the first two weeks of January will be consistently cold, but so far no indication of whether that will translate into any snow.  As of Monday, the only x-c skiing is about 3 km of man-made snow  on the competition trails at Mt. Van Hoevenberg. 

POSTED SATURDAY, 12/28: The latest forecasts are unanimous that we will have rain and temperatures in the 40s both Sunday and Monday and the warmth will continue into Tuesday.  This pattern appears to be coming in as a temperature inversion, so no guarantee how much of the rail will fall as snow at the higher elevations..
​Then it will start cooling down on New Year's Day with a high only around 20 by Friday. Unfortunately, so far only a few snow showers predicted as it cools down.  This warm spell won't likely  melt all of the snow, but surface conditions will not be ideal after it cools down. The exception will be the groomed centers - assuming they have held a base.
We won't try to provide daily reports of the melt, but will see what is left as of New Year's night and go from there. 

UPDATES 12/24&25:
We did manage to pick up the promised 3-5" of new light snow on Monday night. This should allow more terrain to be opened at Mt. Van Hoevenberg, Dewey Mt., and Scotts Cobble.  (The other groomed centers were all pretty much fully open already.) And now most of the Jackrabbit Trail will also be skiable, although the report on McKenzie Pass down to the Pond and out to the road indicated that it's skiable, but just barely.
Based on the other two comments on this report, we were too pessimistic about Avalanche Pass. Sounds as though there are still a few obstacles, but doable getting to the good conditions up on the pass. 
​And while not directly ski-related, the Garden parking in Keene Valley is plowed and sanded. The hiking trail is not yet skiable.
As of Thursday, 12/26 it appears there is no new snow coming, just a slow melt starting on Saturday. Next update on Monday or Tuesday 12/30-31 when we can assess what is still skiable after two days of 40 degrees and rain. Sorry!

INTRODUCTION
The ski centers made good use of the 2-4" of light snow that fell on Thursday, and now we can look forward to another 3-5" on Monday night into Tuesday. The trend in the forecast is downward as far as snowfall is concerned, so we'll just have to wait until tomorrow to see how much actually falls.
After three cold days and nights, Tuesday through Thursday will be in the 20s with sunshine Christmas day and Thursday. Sunshine continues for Friday and Saturday with temperatures inching into the 30s. Then Sunday threatens some rain with a high of 40. Continued warm on the following Monday, but no additional rain. It doesn't appear, at least this far from those forecasts, that we will lose much of the snow, but the surface conditions will not be quite as good.
JACKRABBIT TRAIL
The smoother sections such as River Road to the Lake Placid Club and Craig Wood to Birdsong Lane remain skiable. Also some of the Paul Smiths section between the VIC and south of Rt, 86. Lumber operations will likely prevent a through ski to Lake Clear Jct.  
The  Old Mountain Road is now skiable although the rougher sections still demand caution as not all rocks are fully covered. No report on the new section north of Scotts Cobble.
McKenzie Pass section is skiable from Whiteface Inn Lane, and good as one approaches the lean-to. According to one comment on this report the descent to McKenzie Pond was skiable but was "lumpy" with early season hazards such as rocks and water bars. 

GROOMED CENTERS

        ADK CASCADE WELCOME CENTER (PREVIOUSLY: CASCADE CROSS-COUNTRY SKI CENTER)
         https://adk.org/cascade-welcome-center/   518-837-5047
           Km Open and Groomed:  15  Track Set: Approx. 15 
          New snow: 5"  Packed Base Depth: 5"   Off Track: 8"   
          New Snow last 72 hours: 7"
          Surface Conditions: Packed powder on hardpack with still a few thin spots.
          Remarks: All trails open.

         SCOTTS COBBLE NORDIC CENTER - NEW
         10 km of groomed trails on Craig Wood Golf Course - rentals, lessons operated by High Peaks Cyclery. Trail fee of $15/day - $10/half-day. Residents of the Tri-Lakes area ski for free (Donations appreciated)       scottscobblenordic.com.
518-523-9811 or 518-523-3742

          KM Open and Groomed: 8  Track Set: not yet 
         New snow:  1"   Packed Base Depth:  2"   Off track: 3"  
          New snow past 72 hours:  4"
          Surface conditions:  Packed powder with thin spots  and some areas blown clear    
          Remarks:  
          MOUNT VAN HOEVENBERG:
        https://mtvanhoevenberg.com/daily-update/   518-523-2811
          Km Open and Groomed: 40  Track Set: 5km  
          New snow:  5"  Packed Base Depth:  5" on Legacy trails   Off track: 8" 
          New snow past 72 hours:  7"
          Surface Conditions:   Packed powder with now fewer thin spots. Good coverage on 2 km of competition trails
         Remarks:  Most Legacy trails on south side (a.k.a. cross-country side) open, but not Porter Mt. Some trails on the north side of the road (a.k.a. biathlon side) but not Perimeter or Three Trails. 

​           PAUL SMITH'S VISITOR INTERPRETIVE CENTER:
         https://www.paulsmithsvic.org/trailconditions/  518-327-6241
           Km Groomed and Open: 30 km  Track Set: none reported    
           New Snow:  5" Packed Base Depth: 6"   Off track:  10" 
           New snow past 72 hours:  8"
           Surface Conditions:  Packed powder. Considerable grooming as of Monday, but not on some of the narrower trails. 
​           Remarks:  There is now a current online report, but a phone call might be best to determine the exact conditions.
            DEWEY MOUNTAIN:
           https://www.facebook.com/deweymountainrecreationcenter  518-891-2697
            Km Open:  5  Track set: none
           New Snow:  1"  Packed Base Depth:   Off Track:  
           New snow past 72 hours: 3"
           Surface Conditions: 
           Remarks: Lower trails  open with thin spots.

           TUPPER LAKE X-C SKI TRAILS
           https://www.facebook.com/Tupper-Lake-Groomed-XC-Trails-102907273119538/  518-359-8370
            Km Open: 10   Track set:   10
           New Snow:  3"   Base Depth:  6"    Off track: 10"   
           New snow past 72 hours: 5" 
           Surface Conditions:  Packed powder
​        Remarks:  The system mostly held a good base. The entire system has been groomed and remains the best groomed skiing in the area. 

BACKCOUNTRY CONDITIONS
Most of the popular backcountry skis managed to hold some base and benefited from Friday's snow. Caution still advised as not all hazards are fully covered. The new snow will be light, so be aware that those hazards may just be better disguised while still being dangerous. Thursday, 12/26 report from Lake Colden says 25" at the cabin.

Whiteface Highway: As has been the case for nearly a month, the highway is fully covered.

Marcy Dam, Truck Trail: Skiable with thin spots for the first two miles. Rocks disguised but not covered. Meadows Lane now blocked off for the winter. Park on the left to leave room for ranger vehicles with snowmobile trailers in the event of an emergency. 
Fish Pond Truck Trail: Also skiable although the hill at two miles will require caution. Lake ice may be safe after the cold weather this past weekend, but definitely make your own assessment for the alternate return.
Hays Brook Truck Trail: Definitely skiable to both the Sheep Meadow and Grass Pond. The only problem is that so far the Hays Brook parking has not been plowed, so 4WD is essential for that trailhead. 
Newcomb Lake Road: As usual, the best skiing. No report on the road to Moose Pond. There is good cover, but there may be downed trees. 
Gulf Brook Road to Boreas Ponds: As of the afternoon of 12/25, no parking has been plowed and no ski tracks heading in. We'll try to convince North Hudson that this is a resource they should support with at least a bit of plowing, but no guarantees. UPDATE:  Two communications on 12/25 and 12/27 with North Hudson unfortunately seem to indicate no plowing of that parking this winter.
Avalanche Pass: Now skiable past Marcy Dam thanks to Monday's new snow. Lake Colden now has 25" of snow.  Avalanche Lake and Lake Colden are crossable. Caution is always advised near the outlet to Avalanche Lake. If in doubt, take to the trail on the west side about 50 yards before the outlet and cross on the bridge. 
​Ausable Lake Road: According to a report on this page, it required about 1/2 mile of walking past the gate, and then a further bit of walking to ski to the lake. The new snow should make it all skiable.
Wright Peak Ski Trail:  ​See comment below. We can expect these conditions to continue until we have considerably more snow.
Mt. Marcy Ski Trail: Similar conditions to Wright Peak being very bony up to 50-meter bridge and up the steep just above, but then good cover the rest of the way.

INTRODUCTION
Most areas kept at least some base, and the 2" of light snow that fell on Thursday is very welcome.  Nevertheless, there are still thin spots on all trails that are otherwise skiable, so use caution on any downhills as a fall could be painful on the hard ground. Perhaps another inch or so Friday night, and then cold (highs only around 10 on Sunday) for the rest of the weekend. Slowly warming up next week, but more snow possible on Monday. So far, no threat of rain or even above freezing temperatures through Christmas Day.
Next update on Monday when we have a better idea on possible snowfall and how much it will actually warm by the end of the week.
JACKRABBIT TRAIL
The smoother sections such as River Road to the Lake Placid Club and Craig Wood to Birdsong Lane remain skiable. Also some of the Paul Smiths section between the VIC and south of Rt, 86. Lumber operations will likely prevent a through ski to Lake Clear Jct.  The Keene end of  Old Mountain Road is marginally skiable from Rock and River, but improves as one goes higher, but the final stretch to the top of the pass is still not quite ready. Lake Placid end as far as the very first beaver meadow is skiable, but the climb to the beaver pond needs more snow to cover the rocks. No report on the new section north of Scotts Cobble. McKenzie Pass section also marginally from Whiteface Inn Lane, but better as one approaches the lean-to. Descent to McKenzie Pond still not ready, and there is no base at all starting in from McKenzie Pond Road. 

GROOMED CENTERS

        ADK CASCADE WELCOME CENTER (PREVIOUSLY: CASCADE CROSS-COUNTRY SKI CENTER)
         https://adk.org/cascade-welcome-center/   518-837-5047
           Km Open and Groomed:  10  Track Set: Some where possible   
          New snow: 2"  Packed Base Depth: 3"   Off Track: 5"   
          New Snow last 72 hours: 2"
          Surface Conditions: Packed powder on hardpack with thin spots.
          Remarks: Northside trails open as of Friday.  No base survived on most of the trails south of the brook  

         SCOTTS COBBLE NORDIC CENTER - NEW
         10 km of groomed trails on Craig Wood Golf Course - rentals, lessons operated by High Peaks Cyclery. Trail fee of $15/day - $10/half-day. Residents of the Tri-Lakes area ski for free (Donations appreciated)       scottscobblenordic.com.
518-523-9811 or 518-523-3742

          KM Open and Groomed: some  Track Set: not yet 
         New snow:  2"   Packed Base Depth:  1-2"   Off track: 3"  
          New snow past 72 hours:  2"
          Surface conditions:  Packed powder with thin spots  and some areas blown clear    
          Remarks:  Definitely skiable with some grooming but limited on the upper course. More cover on the lower course.
          MOUNT VAN HOEVENBERG:
        https://mtvanhoevenberg.com/daily-update/   518-523-2811
          Km Open and Groomed: 11  Track Set: none reported   
          New snow:  2"  Packed Base Depth:  2-3" on Legacy trails   Off track: 3" 
          New snow past 72 hours:  2"
          Surface Conditions:   Packed powder with thin spots except good coverage on 2 km of competition trails
         Remarks:  Most Legacy trails on south side (a.k.a. cross-country side) open, but not Porter Mt. No trails on the north side of the road (a.k.a. biathlon side) reported open as of Friday. 

​           PAUL SMITH'S VISITOR INTERPRETIVE CENTER:
         https://www.paulsmithsvic.org/trailconditions/  518-327-6241
           Km Groomed and Open: 10 km  Track Set: none reported    
           New Snow:  2-3" Packed Base Depth: 3-4"   Off track:  6" 
           New snow past 72 hours:  2-3"
           Surface Conditions:  Packed powder. Some grooming as of Friday with more possible over the weekend.
​           Remarks:  No current online report, but a phone call determined that they held onto most of their base.

            DEWEY MOUNTAIN:
           https://www.facebook.com/deweymountainrecreationcenter  518-891-2697
            Km Open:  ?  Track set: none
           New Snow:  2"  Packed Base Depth:   Off Track:  
           New snow past 72 hours: 2"
           Surface Conditions: 
           Remarks: Lower trails may be open with this 2" of new snow.

           TUPPER LAKE X-C SKI TRAILS
           https://www.facebook.com/Tupper-Lake-Groomed-XC-Trails-102907273119538/  518-359-8370
            Km Open: 10   Track set:    Some 10
           New Snow:  2-3"   Base Depth:  5"    Off track: 10"   
           New snow past 72 hours: 2" 
           Surface Conditions:  Packed powder
​        Remarks:  The system mostly held a good base. The entire system has been groomed and is the best groomed skiing in the area. 

BACKCOUNTRY CONDITIONS
Most of the popular backcountry skis managed to hold some base, but exact surface conditions will be variable.

Marcy Dam, Truck Trail: Skiable with thin spots for the first two miles. Rocks disguised but not covered. Meadows Lane now blocked off for the winter. Park on the left to leave room for ranger vehicles with snowmobile trailers in the event of an emergency. 
Fish Pond Truck Trail: Also skiable although the hill at two miles will require caution. Lake ice no yet safe for the alternate return.
Hays Brook Truck Trail: Definitely skiable to both the Sheep Meadow and Grass Pond. The only problem is that so far the Hays Brook parking has not been plowed, so 4WD is essential for that trailhead. 
Newcomb Lake Road: As usual, the best skiing. No report on the road to Moose Pond. 
Gulf Brook Road to Boreas Ponds: No report of condition or parking availability.
Avalanche Pass: Not yet skiable past marcy Dam. Lake Colden had 14" of snow before Thursday's new light snow, so definitely still more than the 8" that requires skis or snowshoes. Avalanche Lake was being crossed a week ago. The thaw may have changed that for a few days, but the very cold temperatures this weekend should make both Avalanche Lake and Lake Colden crossable. 
​Ausable Lake Road: Probably will require about 1/2 mile of walking past the gate, but then skiable to the lake.

BRIEF THURSDAY EVENING UPDATE:
We have picked up 1-2" of new snow over the past 24 hours. The forecast calls for perhaps another 1-2" Friday. Then it is just quite cold over the weekend with highs around 10 degrees. The temperatures moderate into next week to a high around freezing by Christmas day.  Unfortunately, no more new snow to go with the cold temps. The only good news is that this cold snap, with not much snow on the ground, might just freeze up all the little seeps that can ruin the conditions on even a trail with adequate snow.  More complete report tomorrow, Friday, when the ski area operators can report what they can open with this limited new snow.

Monday night into Tuesday was temperatures in the low to mid 40s with significant winds to accelerate the melt.  Not all areas are totally bare, but much less snow than over this past weekend. None of the groomed centers report any skiing, although Tupper Lake should have survived with a good base. Likewise, so far we can't recommend any section of the Jackrabbit Trail. While we will be checking as temperatures cool and we even pick up an inch or so of snow, the only skiing we can, at the moment, promise for the coming weekend will be the Whiteface Highway, which still has a good base right from the Toll House.
And for anyone contemplating a High Peak, there will still be enough snow above 2,500 feet to require snowshoes. As of this past weekend, Avalanche Lake ice was being crossed, but no one should assume that it is still safe - especially at the outlet where it's advisable to go right 50+ yards from the outlet, gain the hiking trail, and cross the outlet on the bridge.
​Stay tuned, we'll have a hopefully more optimistic report by Thursday. 

INTRODUCTION
Some rain Wednesday, heavy at times, reduced the snow depth, but didn't eliminate it in most of the Tri-Lakes area. And with 2-4" of new snow on top of a now very firm base, skiing continues this weekend.  Looking ahead, however, it seems that we're in a cycle where, 'If it's raining, it must be Tuesday' with no clear forecast for new snow for the same recovery we had this past week.  As always, 'stay tuned'.
JACKRABBIT TRAIL
The smoother sections such as River Road to the Lake Placid Club and Craig Wood to Birdsong Lane remain skiable. Also some of the Paul Smiths section between the VIC and south of Rt, 86. Lumber operations will likely prevent a through ski to Lake Clear Jct.  Parts of the Old Mountain Road were skiable last weekend, but not so much this weekend. McKenzie Pass section still not quite ready yet, and it appears to be quite thin starting in from McKenzie Pond Road. 

GROOMED CENTERS

        ADK CASCADE WELCOME CENTER (PREVIOUSLY: CASCADE CROSS-COUNTRY SKI CENTER)
         https://adk.org/cascade-welcome-center/   518-837-5047
           Km Open and Groomed:  1  Track Set:   
          New snow: 2"  Packed Base Depth: 4"   Off Track: 5"   
          New Snow last 72 hours: 2"
          Surface Conditions: Packed powder on hardpack with thin spots
          Remarks: Northside trails open as of Friday, more might be open Saturday. 

         SCOTTS COBBLE NORDIC CENTER - NEW
         10 km of groomed trails on Craig Wood Golf Course - rentals, lessons operated by High Peaks Cyclery. Trail fee of $15/day - $10/half-day. Residents of the Tri-Lakes area ski for free (Donations appreciated)       scottscobblenordic.com.
518-523-9811 or 518-523-3742

          KM Open and Groomed:  10 Track Set: not yet 
         New snow:  2"   Packed Base Depth:  2-3"   Off track: 4"  
          New snow past 72 hours:  2"
          Surface conditions:  Packed powder with thin spots  and some areas blown clear    
          Remarks:  Definitely skiable, but limited on the upper course. More cover on the lower course.
          MOUNT VAN HOEVENBERG:
        https://mtvanhoevenberg.com/daily-update/   518-523-2811
          Km Open and Groomed: 2  Track Set: none reported   
          New snow:  2"  Packed Base Depth:  2-3" on Legacy trails   Off track: 8" 
          New snow past 72 hours:  2"
          Surface Conditions:   Packed powder on competition trails
         Remarks:  Back to just a few km on the competition trails.
​           PAUL SMITH'S VISITOR INTERPRETIVE CENTER:
         https://www.paulsmithsvic.org/trailconditions/  518-327-6241
           Km Groomed and Open: ?  Track Set: none reported    
           New Snow:   Packed Base Depth:   Off track:  
           New snow past 72 hours:  
           Surface Conditions:  
​           Remarks:  No current online report, but their base should have survived that thaw. We'll try to get more information by phone.

            DEWEY MOUNTAIN:
           https://www.facebook.com/deweymountainrecreationcenter  518-891-2697
            Km Open: 5  Track set: 
           New Snow:  2"  Packed Base Depth:   Off Track:  
           New snow past 72 hours: 2"
           Surface Conditions:  packed powder with thin spots
           Remarks: Lower trails open with caution advised.

           TUPPER LAKE X-C SKI TRAILS
           https://www.facebook.com/Tupper-Lake-Groomed-XC-Trails-102907273119538/  518-359-8370
            Km Open: 10   Track set:    Some 10
           New Snow:  5"   Base Depth:  10"    Off track: 15-20"   
           New snow past 72 hours:  No specific report of total snow - just three another dose of lake effect snow
           Surface Conditions:  Packed powder
​           Remarks:  The system entire system has been groomed. 

BACKCOUNTRY CONDITIONS
Most of the popular backcountry skis managed to hold some base, but exact surface conditions will be variable.
The Marcy Dam, Fish Pond, and Hays Brook truck trails remain very skiable. Meadows Lane is now blocked off for the winter, adding a mile to the ski to Marcy Dam. Last week, the hiking trail to Marcy Dam was reported as skiable, but not likely now. The only problem is that the Hays Brook parking has not been plowed, so 4WD is essential for that trailhead. Newcomb Lake Road was good last weekend and remains good this weekend. No information on Gulf Brook Road to Boreas Ponds. Lake Colden had 15" of snow before Thursday's new light snow, so definitely still more than the 8" that requires skis or snowshoes. Still not likely enough cover to ski past Marcy Dam. Ausable Lake Road probably will require about 1/2 mile of walking past the gate.

On Wednesday we experienced temperatures in the low 40s and 1/2-1" of rain. This melted some of the snow, but left a base in most places. We did pick up a bit of snow on Wednesday night, and with temperatures staying below freezing through the weekend, there should be some skiing possible. Look for a complete report tomorrow evening.  

As of Friday morning, the Tri-Lakes are has picked up 5-6" of new snow.  This fell on a base of 4" or so making nearly a foot on the ground. This should have all the early season favorites, Marcy Dam, Hays Brook, and Fish Pond truck trails plus, of course, the Whiteface Highway in good shape. for the weekend. Rougher trails and most of the Jackrabbit Trail still need a bit more snow.
Cascade is now fully open on 15 km. Mt. Van Hoevenberg promises to be open as of Saturday.  No recent report from Dewey Mt. or the Paul Smith's VIC, but the Paul Smiths area has plenty of snow. Tupper Lake is fully open and groomed after all their lake effect snow.
Weekend weather will be cold on Saturday, but near freezing on Sunday before three days of above freezing temperatures starting off next week. 
​More detailed report this evening as more information is available.

INTRODUCTION
We picked up another inch or so of light snow Sunday night, and with cold temperatures and more light snow predicted for the week ahead, we can look forward to a good stretch of early-season ski conditions.  Next update on Friday when we know how much new snow has fallen during the week, and what the weather for the weekend will be. Current reports predict a high of only 20 degrees on Friday, and not much warmer on Saturday.

JACKRABBIT TRAIL
No section can be recommended at this time.  Maybe by the weekend some of the smoother, flatter section will be skiable.

GROOMED CENTERS

        ADK CASCADE WELCOME CENTER (PREVIOUSLY: CASCADE CROSS-COUNTRY SKI CENTER)
         https://adk.org/cascade-welcome-center/   518-837-5047
           Km Open and Groomed:  6 Track Set:  Not yet possible  
          New snow:  Packed Base Depth: 1-3""   Off Track:4"   
          New Snow last 72 hours: 4"
          Surface Conditions: Packed powder with thin spots
          Remarks: All trails north of the brook are open. 

         SCOTTS COBBLE NORDIC CENTER - NEW
         10 km of groomed trails on Craig Wood Golf Course - rentals, lessons operated by High Peaks Cyclery. Trail fee of $15/day - $10/half-day. Residents of the Tri-Lakes area ski for free (Donations appreciated)       scottscobblenordic.com.
518-523-9811 or 518-523-3742

          KM Open and Groomed:    Track Set: 
         New snow:    Packed Base Depth:     Off track:  
          New snow past 72 hours: 
          Surface conditions:           
          Remarks: No current report on their website, but there is enough snow to ski on the golf course.

          MOUNT VAN HOEVENBERG:
        https://mtvanhoevenberg.com/daily-update/   518-523-2811
          Km Open and Groomed:   Track Set:   
          New snow:   Packed Base Depth:  on Legacy trails   Off track: 
          New snow past 72 hours: 
          Surface Conditions:   
         Remarks:  Website reports 5" of snow and more snow being made, but so far no trails are reported as open. 

​           PAUL SMITH'S VISITOR INTERPRETIVE CENTER:
         https://www.paulsmithsvic.org/trailconditions/  518-327-6241
           Km Groomed and Open:   Track Set:    
           New Snow:   Packed Base Depth:   Off track:  
           New snow past 72 hours:  
           Surface Conditions:  
​           Remarks:  No current report. If none is available by Friday, we'll just have to drive out and check.. 

            DEWEY MOUNTAIN:
           https://www.facebook.com/deweymountainrecreationcenter  518-891-2697
            Km Open:   Track set: 
           New Snow:    Packed Base Depth:   Off Track:  
           New snow past 72 hours: 
           Surface Conditions:  
           Remarks: 3-4" of light snow, but so far not enough to be safe to open

           TUPPER LAKE X-C SKI TRAILS
           https://www.facebook.com/Tupper-Lake-Groomed-XC-Trails-102907273119538/  518-359-8370
            Km Open: 10   Track set:    no mentiion
           New Snow:  4"   Base Depth:  6"    Off track: 8-10"   
           New snow past 72 hours:  No specific report of total snow - just three day of lake effect snow
           Surface Conditions:  Packed powder
​           Remarks:  The system has been groomed, but still a bit soft. Free Maxiglide in the sign-in booth.

BACKCOUNTRY CONDITIONS
See previous report for Marcy Dam Truck Trail conditions. New snow only enough for a slight improvement on those conditions. Report from yesterday confirms that the Newcomb Lake Road is good skiing with just a few thin spots under the conifers. Fish Pond Truck Trail also a possibility as is Hayes Brook to the Sheep Meadow. Photo of Newcomb Lake Road below.  Lake Colden had 7" of snow before the new snow, so definitely more than the 8" that requires skis or snowshoes, but not enough to ski past Marcy Dam








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